*** PREFACE / UPDATE ***
Posting this was a mistake. I am on a journey of understanding how my relationship with Jesus shapes how I engage with other people in the political realm. I do believe what I wrote, but I don't think these topics can really be discussed by those who hold them passionately without devolving into labeling and slurs.
I think people on opposite ends of the political spectrum can have healthy dialogues, come to understand each others' positions and even acknowledge the difficulty of the competing interests.
I knew of a church that couldn't get over this. It was a mix of white and blue collar and there was always tension between the two groups. The white collar professionals spoke against the unions that the blue collar workers relied on for job security and safety. The blue collar workers thought the professionals were soft when they wanted to spend church money on things they had to do without. Instead of empathy, growth and understanding, the church just stagnated. I think it was a unique opportunity because churches tend to be very homogeneous in terms of race and social status.
Maybe it's too hard to imagine a church here in the US that crosses these sorts of boundaries, but that's what existed in the 1st century by the work of the Holy Spirit. Not that there wasn't class-based division and strife. (According to a commentary I read somewhere - can't find the source at the moment) The argument over hair length was a shame/class-based argument. Roman wives were required to wear a veil, a sign of privilege, while it was illegal for prostitutes and slaves to wear a veil. Supposedly this entered the church where the church divided over this issue. Paul said, everyone gets to wear a headcovering in church. Everyone gets to be treated with privilege.
I think that's the model for the church. Not that we fracture until each church has people of like social status and theological beliefs, but that we can figure out how to encourage people of different social standings and theology. I'm thankful that my church has modeled that for me, although it's perhaps more white and middle class than the demographics of where I live.
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I don't want my blog to be political in nature, but I think this is really pertinent. The word "Evangelical" has left a bad taste in my mouth for a long time, but never so much as now. Evangelicalism was a movement that centered around how the Bible was read - not "literally" in the sense that many take it today where the most clear verse or passage on a topic outweighs the rest of scripture, but that scripture as a whole is inerrant in its original form, and generally has been preserved from error through history.
The Westminster divines resisted the societal urge to prooftext because they believed their confession represented the whole of scripture rather than a few passages. As such they were resistant to putting in scripture references that backed up their explanations.
However, as https://theweek.com/christianity/1016833/is-us-evangelical-christianity-more-a-culture-than-a-religion points out, Evangelicalism has morphed into a cultural and political movement than a theological identity.
This becomes even more perverse when we start looking at what Evangelicals support. Pew Research says that 72% of white Evangelicals support what Trump is doing: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/04/28/white-evangelicals-continue-to-stand-out-in-their-support-for-trump/
Now, let's assume that Evangelicals are keen on following the law as written especially in the Old Testament.
Trump has ignored a Supreme Court decision telling him to return a deportee: Deut. 17:12 - "The man who acts presumptuously by not listening to the priest who stands there to serve the Lord your God, nor to the judge, that man shall die; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel."
Trump has denied due process to immigrants he has deported: Lev 19:33-34 "‘When a stranger resides with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the Lord your God."
These are perhaps the most clear verses, but this pattern is repeated throughout the Old Testament - aliens and strangers are not to be oppressed and are due the same justice that natives enjoy, and, willfully ignoring judicial decisions, especially those by the highest court is a capital crime.
This is clearly what White Evangelicals are supporting. I've heard statistics that white people will be the minority in the US within the next generation or two. WHO CARES?? If those in power are using their power for equality under the law and freedom, then skin color or cultural heritage makes no difference. However, if those in power are oppressing minorities and promoting those who look like them, there is every reason to be afraid when white people lose political power. Is the solution, then, to form a racist, oppressive law-ignoring political bloc in the name of JESUS? Or is the solution to seek justice, equity and rule of law?
I still believe that the Bible is the Word of God, but Evangelical has become a label of much of what is wrong in this country.
If you need another reason, consider that the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend. Yes, Trump hates the immigrants and he hates foreign governments, but he has also given strong signals about his next steps, and that may include anyone who stands in his way:
1. He wants to suspend Habeas Corpus, maybe you cheer that he can now deport people without a hearing or due process, but this is a general right, not one specific to immigrants. In other words, without Habeas Corpus, Trump could send anyone to jail anywhere without a hearing, including his political enemies.
2. He has shown special hatred for those who oppose his political ends. Non-citizens making political statements have been targeted for arrest and deportation. Government employees that opposed things he was doing that were illegal have been fired. Do we really think that he's going to show restraint when citizens become a thorn in his side?
3. He's told El Salvador that they need to build bigger jails to house the US Citizens he wants to send over there.
4. His legal argument around deportation and jailing is that even if his deportation was totally illegal and in contempt of court, he cannot be forced into bringing the person back. So, let's say Trump sends you to El Salvador tomorrow. He doesn't have to negotiate to get you out of jail. He doesn't have to get you on an airplane back to the US. All he has to do is allow you back into the country when you show up at customs (and who knows if he hasn't come up with a bunch of loopholes there, like 'how do we really know it's you? Back to El Salvador!'
30 comments:
I don't refer to myself as an Evangelical any more, for that very reason. But I wonder what we should call ourselves. Of course, historically the best names have been given to Christians by their critics (Puritans, Methodists, etc.), but until we start acting like our forebears to the point we earn a new name, how are we to be distinguished from "Evangelical Christians"?
I remember Derek Thomas, around 2005, critiquing American Christianity as being too close to one particular political party. It's only gotten worse since then.
I'm absolutely amazed that Christians are in favor of abolishing the separation between church and state. Don't they know that when the church is the state, then the state is the church, and inevitably those who want to follow Jesus Christ will be persecuted by the church=state for daring to upset Their order of things by preaching the gospel? The chief opponents of the Puritans and Methodists and Baptists were the Church of England.
It's hard because in one sense, a label is a shortcut in a conversation. For example, I might say I'm a "Theistic Evolutionist", or a "Six-Day Creationist" and that may identify my stance enough to answer many questions, but those labels often carry baggage. Six-Day Creationists tend to be anti-intellectual and anti-science, so if I say that, the person may bucket me as anti-science. Even if I avoid labels, but answer "yes", to "do you think God could have created the universe in six days?" then I may get the baggage associated with me anyway. Such is the way with Evangelicals. Even if I avoid the label, if I answer questions in a way that puts me in that bucket, then probably the anti-science, misogynistic, racist labels get stuck on me, too.
I'm intrigued (in a negative way) about how Evangelicals are handling power. When we were out of power, "viewpoint discrimination" was a dirty word. How dare universities police peoples' speech and punish them for opinions that are contrary to the views of the institution. However, what we are seeing now is what happens when the ACLJ whiners get into power. Any pro-Palestinian view expressed publicly is grounds for deportation. Any university that allows pro-Palestinian students to express pro-Palestinian views publicly without discipline is subject to having all Federal monies revoked. So, this was never about protecting free speech. It was about wedging protections for a specific viewpoint into law through the court system and then smashing protections for other viewpoints once in power.
What you said is exactly it, and we might be doomed to repeat history. The right-wing Evangelicalism that is in power wants to establish a national religion, but they will be very upset when the power they create is then turned against them when, let's say, an equally militant Catholic or "liberal" Christian regime comes into power.
True and valid points. But the other side of the coin has been really no better. I could mention many many things….just one example….
I don’t think an ethos that says that expecting people to be on time in business settings is a “product of toxic, misogynistic, white supremacy, western culture”….. on numerous occasions during his term Joe Biden declared that “white supremacy” was the biggest terrorist threat that America faces. yeah I am sorry but
….the fact is that the complaints about the extremist on the left side of things is not nor should it be dismissed as just simply right wing conspiracy. Again, don’t get me wrong very valid complaints you make, but it isn’t exactly a peach on the other side of the coin either and I can see where citizens had to make their choice between what they deemed the lesser of two evils.
I didn’t vote for Trump, but I sure as heck wasn’t going to vote for the extreme woke left that has come to dominate the Democrat party either. Up until Barack Obama’s last term in office race relations in America had vastly improved and were on a trajectory of improving. Lots of blame to go around on both sides, but I would put the lion share of the blame for bad race relations on the side of the Democrats, with their myopic focus on identity, politics and oppressed versus oppressor power viewpoints on everything. We could be talking about the space shuttle and they’d somehow bring it back around to racism. Again, the absurdity is self-referential, are you gonna look me in the eye and tell me that being on time is racist? Or with any kind of veracity that white supremacy is that really the biggest terrorist threat we face?
I think your use of "woke" betrays a lot. I'm not sure where the idea of "on time = toxic misogynistic..." comes from. I will say that each side puts the other in a box based on the most extreme views and I don't want to engage in extremes. The core of "woke" is caring about racial justice. That means that we understand that minorities have been and continue to be discriminated against structurally. Interstates are built through minority, not majority areas of the city. We see significant discrepancies in treatment of minorities by police departments. There's a good article by the Detroit Police Chief on how racism was open and rampant when he was younger in the force and how it's now more subtle, but still there.
It's hard to figure out what is "white supremacy". The Jan 6 riot was stoked by Trump's false claim that the election was stolen, but there's pretty strong evidence that there was a strong white supremacist involvement. https://apnews.com/article/white-supremacy-threats-capitol-riots-2d4ba4d1a3d55197489d773b3e0b0f32
If that's true, maybe Biden is also speaking the truth. If white supremacist militias are conducting attacks on the Capitol and plotting to kidnap governors, then they are certainly a credible threat.
I found this about "on time" https://www.thompsoncoe.com/resources/myhrgenius/hr-tips/tip/are-attendance-policies-discriminatory/
It seems that the angle that is being explored is cultural differences. European cultures value being on time and consider being late to be lazy or disrespectful. In a class with many internationals, we explored cultural differences. Would it be okay, for example, if someone worked for Panasonic and got fired because they were too combative in meetings, or they didn't respect personal space of others. Other cultures see American behaviors are rude, insensitive and disrespectful similarly to how we consider being on-time.
I approach this from the perspective of respect. Jesus was very clear. We love others as we love ourselves. He was very clear that we don't hate and reject people because we don't like their culture or whether their values are the same as ours, even our "enemise". All I see in anti-woke is a bunch of people who really really want an excuse to hate the people they already hate. There is certainly a difference between treating people with respect and turning that into oppressive laws, but many laws arise out of a crisis of inhuman behavior.
My church asked a minority woman to talk after George Floyd. In our city, far from the deep south, she talked about the treatment she and her family received. She was a hospice chaplain and her husband a school administrator. They lived in a good neighborhood near a great park. She was stopped many times driving to clients by people asking "what she was doing in their neighborhood" She was told that her kind were not welcome in that part of town. Her children were likewise harassed in the neighborhood park. Her brother was brain-damaged after being beaten up by kids at his school. The police did nothing. The anti-woke censors want to ban Michelle Obama's book because she tells the truth about racial incidents. Is it Christian to plug our hears to cries of injustice? Were race relations really getting better, or had we just done a better job of hiding and excusing injustices?
What are you suggesting that my using their own term “woke” betrays?
The criticism of what has become the woke left wing movement are valid and far from the “dog whistle” dismissal uses by its proponents. That attitude is what betrays a lot. Better to actually engage ideas rather than the dismissal of those who hold differing views as nazi, racists, facists, etc.
https://web.archive.org/web/20211108155321/https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/please-just-fucking-tell-me-what
It’s insulting to the 9 million Jews who were slaughtered by the real Hitler.
Have you engage in any significant meaningful way with those and their work who are considered the thought leaders of the social justice woke “anti racist” movement?
-Robin DiAngelo
-Kimberle Crenshaw
-Ibram X Kendi
Etc. ??
I have engaged with their work. If you take the time to go to those primary source documents, you’ll find out how racist and extreme they are. But they get a pass with a heavy dose of selective outrage because they are leftwing racists.
I would recommend engaging not only with them so one can see their extremism but also be open minded enough to check out dissenting points of view from the other side of the coin like Coleman Hughes. His book last year “the end of race politics” is spot on in demonstrating how these new critical race hustlers like the names mentioned above are a far cry from the old school, liberalism and soundness of Martin Luther King Jr..
Also, it’s a social psychological fact that race relations were far improved and it is the mainstream left-wing media that has greatly exaggerated, as Coleman, Hughes, who happens to be a young Black man, accurately points out with profound research, fax, and data.
The virtue signaling self loathing of white rich liberals has reached hair on fire proportions, the last 5 to 10 years. The latest stats from Echelon Insights research (and many others) has by a large margin white “progressives” being far to the left of American minorities on many issues of this sort. The growth in support for Trump among minorities speaks volumes to out of touch rich white elite lefties are on these cultural issues.
It is largely untrue that the GOP or evangelicals have become more right wing. What is true as they’ve become more authoritarian and populist driven. I mean for Pete sakes the very fact that evangelical support Trump speaks volumes about how they’re not as conservative as they used to be, no? For Pete sakes the Republican Party doesn’t even have a stance on their platform that is pro life anymore.
But to the chagrin of old-school liberals like Coleman, Hughes and Bill Maher just to name a few, they clearly and accurately see that the left and Democrats have moved further and further to the left in an extreme fashion.
It’s absurd.
https://youtu.be/fB9KVYAdYwg?si=rJA1YeU_wDMzqhgB
Also, the fact that even so many of the old school liberals accurately recognize that the modern woke “Progressive” movements obsession with treating Western Philosophy as a four letter word is not only flat out not true (that is not to say it doesn’t have its sins) but dangerous to the health of America.
This nails it>> https://youtu.be/wnl243DjsUE?si=1hwweH2ktsxliVo2
You want to know why Trump (again I didn’t vote for him, nor am I a fan) got elected twice? It’s not because most folks who voted for him love him. It’s because they view him as the lesser of two evils and because they are sick and tired of these absurd extreme attacks on Western Philosophy.
And this is where it goes off the rails. Just because John Freaking Doe is a rabid extremist left person and has radical views that you assign whatever box to doesn't mean you get to stick me in that box, and just because I say "racial injustice" doesn't give you the permission to assign whatever false labels you assign.
You haven't dealt with my argument. You're talking past me to some sort of label you've assigned. It's dishonest and disrespectful and since I run this blog, I'm not going to go much further before I delete your comments if you aren't going to engage honestly.
Can you explain to me how your two sentences are congruent?
1. "It is largely untrue that the GOP or evangelicals have become more right wing."
2. "What is true as they’ve become more authoritarian and populist driven."
I'm not sure how one can become more "authoritarian" and not be further from center. It's like saying that "Fundamentalists" are less committed to their religion than average adherants.
It's not lost on me that you don't want to debate what Jesus has to say about race relations, only what the political factions and radicals have to say about it. I don't think you or I know why Trump got elected. It may have something to do with the fact that he will tell you exactly what you want to hear, tell the person next to you exactly what they want to hear, and then do neither when elected.
All this stuff you lob at liberals happens on the conservative side. Pro-life was the dog whistle until the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade. Then the extremists started pushing more invasive and that became a liability. Conservative Kansas voted down the "protect them both" law and the writing was on the wall that pro-life was now nuanced and complex vs. a litmus test.
"Far improved" - I agree. We went from slavery to Jim Crow laws to civil rights. That's a lot of progress. But, there is still widespread societal discrimination. Freakonomics showed discrimination against minority and lower-class-sounding names in hiring decisions. Studies show that the same house with "white" furnishings and pictures get higher offers than the same houses with minority furnishings. Realtors have been charged with crimes because they've refused to show minority buyers houses in white neighborhoods and vice versa.
A better way to have phrased it would’ve been for me to say that while it’s true that the GOP has become more populous driven it is untrue that they become more “conservative”. And you’re still not explaining what you mean by implying that me using the term walk, their own term, betrays something? What are you implying it betrays?
You didn’t engage with any of the links that I sent or the ideas expressed they’re and you responded too quickly for that. You’re always entitled to become what you criticize at this blog and delete my post that have a dissenting point of view.
Have you engaged in any meaningful way with those thought Leaders mentioned who are part of the woke critical race theory so-called anti-racist movement? Have you read Coleman Hughes books or similar points of view to him? They come from different ends of the spectrum on this and other similar topics. I’ve engaged with both sides objectively it’s pretty clear you have not..
You carry water for and soft pedal the idea that “white supremacy” is the biggest terrorist threat in America faces. I’ll stand by my point that that is absurd and doesn’t help race relations, but further provokes them. This isn’t 1960 and we should stop acting like it is and acknowledge the tremendous progress that’s been made.
“still widespread societal discrimination.” no there isn’t as the Bill Maher clip rightly outlines and as Coleman Hughes book with a mountain of research fact, logic and data proves. Does society discrimination exist? Yes is it as widespread as you’re implying? No.
Seriously, Bill Maher is an authoritative expert on the state of racial discrimination in the US? I thought he was an entertainer who maintained an audience by lampooning everything he could.
I grew up RP and ultra-conservative. I was steeped in all the arguments. I've done graduate level statistics and read "statistical analysis" from the Heritage Foundation that is utter cherry-picked horseshit.
Here are some studies that suggest that you're wrong:
https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2024/06/15/racial-discrimination-shapes-how-black-americans-view-their-progress-and-u-s-institutions-2/
https://www.huduser.gov/portal/Publications/pdf/HUD-514_HDS2012.pdf (Real Estate Discrimination)
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/how-much-does-your-name-matter-ep-122-rebroadcast/ (Employment Discrimination)
"LEVITT: So in the audit studies what researchers do is take identical resumes and just change the first name so that one name is distinctively Black and another name isn’t. And they send those out to employers and see whether there’s a callback. And what they find every time is that if you have a distinctively Black name you’re less likely to get a callback."
https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/racism-has-shaped-public-transit-and-its-riddled-inequities (Transit discrimination)
Bill was hardly my only situation. The question is his point generally valid? Yes it is. I can cite anecdotal stories like you as well, for example….. My own son in his 20’s despite having more experience and credentials than most folks in their 40’s was directly told by a major financial institution and a large municipality utilities that it would be difficult at this time (two years ago) for him to get hired on within their organizations as a direct result of DEI programs because he was a white male. Reverse racism? Let’s just call that what it is flat out racism out in the open institutionalized. Look at how Puritanical and dogmatic you’re being about this. I didn’t vote for Trump. I don’t like Trump. I don’t trust Trump, all I’m suggesting is that the other side of the coin has a valid complaint about these issues. You rail against putting people in boxes, but look at your post here accusing white evangelicals of being basically the entire problem. Bullshit! You’re myopic focus on victim mentality and oppress versus oppressor is getting boring. You’ve been beating that dead horse for 10 years at this blog and you need to get out of your own echo chamber.
*Bill was hardly the only Citation.
I can say that white evangelicals are the problem as a former white evangelical. Are you saying racial discrimination doesn't exist as a former minority?
I'm sorry that happened to your son. I don't think that is the purpose of the DEI initiatives, but it's likely that some employers are going to feel they have to reverse-discriminate to make their numbers look better. If you live in a city that's 30% black but the utility has 97% white employees it's probably not a great look.
For the record, "woke" is an African-American term for people who recognize the racial injustice. That's it. As liberals do, it was turned into an all-encompassing social justice term (against the wishes of the AA community) and then correspondingly demonized by conservatives. Pretty much every movement works that way. #MeToo, #BLM, ... I've written about this before.
BTW: I'm done with the argument. I will allow you a respectful last word if there's something you want to respond to, but I'm not interested in being raged against.
You are not being raged against. Your ideas are being challenged. No one is denying that racism exists, what is being challenged is the extremist assertion that it is still as "widespread" as 1960 America, which is the decisive false assertion of the extreme Woke left.
It has been unhealthy for American institutions and culture to be obsessively engaged in the myopic focus of identity politics. Go at least hear the other side, read Coleman Hughes book.
PS...He is a liberal Democrat, but unlike the extreme woke left he's intellectually honest at calling balls and strikes in calling out the b******* on both sides.
"I will allow you a respectful last word..."
This is not the RP way! The RP way is to sovereignly brook no dissent. Write up charges, try in private and excommunicate!
It's to be marveled at how the Lord has granted us not only the privilege of suffering for His name through the RP way, but to use that suffering to make us more like Himself: patient, gracious and loving to all.
God intervened through my spouse in this case :)
I have one like that too. Praise the Lord for such spouses!
As expressed many times before, I appreciate your blog.
Truth is often written on the subway walls and the Spirit grants it to human hearts……. Which is why I love hearing from a wide variety of perspectives, not just those upon the pedestal “experts.”
“”Though I do not like Trump, I respect the people who voted for Trump and the concerns they have are real’………. Paraphrased from Bono on Joe Rogan’s latest episode yesterday.
Indeed, what a tremendous opportunity to show the Grace of God. Instead of contempt and hatred, we can listen, really listen (without self righteousness) to different points of view asking ourselves the question, what is it that this person who is created in the image of God concerned about? Though I may disagree, how can I better understand?
I do not agree much with the policies of say a Bernie Sanders or Cornell West, but I often read and listen to them both, respect their concerns, gain insight from them finding commonality in the human condition.
Is there any more socially accepted othering (the dreaded other) going on in culture right now than the complete othering of the concerns that those (whom I also disagree with) who voted for Trump? Hitler? Seriously? Could there be one more opposite to Trump as Bono? Yet what grace.
To be sure extremist’s exist in the Trump camp as sure as they do on the left, but if they are ALL merely dismissed as fascists/racist and deserving to own the sole blame for all the “drama” today, I can hardly think of a more lazy or self righteous othering, all while striking the pose of humility. It is very interesting to witness the cultural and political realignment today of so many things. How ankle deep is the granting of safe space from so much of the camp who has been “awoken to injustice”. Viewpoint diversity would be way better than checking boxes of skin color. You know, judged by content of one’s character and all. But hey, if we come to view all of life through the lenses of oppressed vs. oppressor it isn’t hard to see how we can demonize the other with a kind of activist delusions of grandeur.
Christian Immigrant and man of color Dr. Jay Bhattacharya was a good faith truth seeker during the very early stages of COVID. As a qualified doctor and scientist he discover that COVID was very infectious, but generally but he was shut down not very lethal in a widespread way. But he was shut down as a racist and “fringe” scientist by elite powers that be. The experts. Though some 16 thousand other medical doctors at the time signed off against the complete shut down of society which we still are discovering the dramatic human wreckage of, their ideas were not just dismissed, they were dismissed with slanderous contemptuous accusations of “fringe”, racist, cancelled, fired, etc, etc.
https://youtu.be/Ur1NEDhtTb8?si=8auWze12cVshUa3F
“The first duty of love is to listen.” Jesus dis that so well.
*Jesus did that so very well.
I commend you also for listening here at your blog, albeit imperfectly. And I appreciate your grace in accepting my imperfect communication style, which is often direct and spunky.
Dear Anonymous,
Thank you for challenging this blogger. And there is nothing wrong with your communication.
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